New genealogists all think about it high one to Nicholas‘ wife Clementia are incorporated here kadД±nlar KolombiyalД± while the, lower than typical products, she would never be stated. When Susanna within certain later on date received out to a new protector, the brand new partner of these protector was not said.
This would mean that King John spent a bit around and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison that have Clementia is present
Here are some let me reveal an idea state-of-the-art of the some eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to say that the conclusions was hotly contested!
Which concept contributes to a great and you will interested ‘twist‘ about facts of Joanna, that may desire fans out-of HBD!
At first glance, there would be absolutely nothing to strongly recommend any connection between the hostage, Susanna from Wales and you will Clementia, partner of Nicholas de- Verdun. Although not, the experience of certain genealogists that have overseas hostages, like youths, could have been which they was basically often placed having nearest and dearest, if any were available.
Bouncing toward 1236, you will find an entrance about Tewkesbury annals and that pertains to Joanna’s mommy as the “Queen Clemencie!” It checks out to some extent:
Now, we know the mom out of Joanna was named Clementia (Clemence?
In cases like this new monk try evidently indulging in gothic legalism. Prior to their demise, Joanna was legitimised by Pope. On such basis as that legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk plainly got it upon himself to raise Joanna’s mommy on the standing out of King, as if their own mother got King John’s partner! It is a fact yet not, one to King John and you may Clementia was never partnered. From the talking about Joanna’s mom while the “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who registered Joanna’s passing was appearing his significant regard to own Joanna, although not trying to alter the true factors.
When it comes to term out of Clementia de Verdun, Paget signifies that she is the latest child from Roger de- Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. One to genealogist takes into account they high you to Clementia acclaimed away from Wiltshire once the they have realized that Queen John got a strong attachment so you’re able to you to condition, it as being the home away from their most trusted partners, this new Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have discovered that name ‘Clementia‘ try extremely rare certainly one of English noblewomen regarding the period. In a single dining table from ladies labels that has been gathered, there have been only a couple situations of your own identity “Clementia” regarding a total of 1407 women in new try! That some body named Clementia will be from the Susanna is known as tall.
So! The data are suggestive, but not conclusive, you to from inside the 1228, Susanna, because the good hostage, got out to this new care of their unique maternal granny, now spouse regarding Nicholas de Verdun!!
New Scottish genealogists of your own MacDuffs‘ hold you to Susanna ferch Llywelyn was created 1214 into the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will died c. 1259 in Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She married Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife in the 1230 along with several children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife, created 1245, passed away 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff born 1247.
However, discover stop objections to all or any that it conjecture! King John had of many mistresses and perhaps possibly eight illegitimate people. The caretaker away from Joanna would have been produced circa 1172 and you can marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was given birth to circa 1191 (fourteen years old at the time of her matrimony to Llywelyn). Rohese, new identified legitimate daughter away from Nicholas de Verdun with his spouse Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. In the event the Clementia are mom from Joanna, she’d are located in their particular later 30’s, very early 40’s when giving birth to Rohese! Not hopeless, specific state, but unlikely.